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Q:
You have been married and divorced three times. Did your marriages
suffer because you were perceived as too independent?
A: My first husband was never really too bothered about me and
he was unfaithful. When I got married for the second time in 1988,
I moved to America but in 1989 I came back to Pakistan for a while.
Then I couldn't get a visa to return. While I was working on it,
my brother, who was living with my husband in the States at the
time, informed me my husband was fooling around. So I decided not
to go back. That was the end of that marriage. And then there was
the third marriage.
We
were living in Canada, I had two kids with my husband. During this
time I got my diploma in fashion design while simultaneously teaching
at the Barbizon Institute, the oldest modelling school in the world.
But my husband and I weren't getting along. He was involved with
another woman. So I asked for a divorce. I had to fight him in court
to win custody of the kids. I gave up all rights in order for him
to sign a paper allowing me to take the children out of the country.
Q:
Did the men in your life hold you back?
A: They always hold you back. Pakistani men like to
control what women do, even what we wear, so do in-laws and family.
It's terrible. Society allows men to do what they want.
Women have to have financial
independence. Men control you because they control your finances.
And if you don't have freedom, you don't have anything. I was lucky
as my father never stopped me from modelling or doing TV.
Q: Do you feel you single-handedly broke the boundaries
as a young, single woman in the eighties?
A: Yes, I did. But it's annoying to be compared to
the slogan: "You've come a long way, baby." It is very
condescending because when you say women have come a long way, you
imply that they were nowhere before that, as opposed to the Marlboro
Man who is supposed to always have been macho.
Q: But isn't it true - take yourself as an example, women
have come a long way
A:Well, let's look at the cigarette. Virginia Slims
is a slim, light cigarette, it's not a Marlboro red.
Q: But why strive to be like a man?
A: Not like a man. Strive to be taken seriously. As
a woman you do have the odds against you, you have to work harder.
This applies to everyone who is oppressed. You have to work harder
to be recognised. The flip side is that you end up being more sensitive.
I feel sorry for people who have never had to prove themselves because
they're privileged, because you become a different human being [through
struggle].
In
the '80s it was difficult. Everyone was against you. When I was
discovered and asked to model, I jumped at it. I didn't think there
was anything wrong with being a model. My first shoot was a jewellery
shoot, and a male friend of mine who was educated abroad and was
ostensibly "modern," had a problem with my pictures. He said they
were vulgar as my neckline was too low. Suddenly I had all this
opposition, and it did not just come from the lower or middle classes.
My friends, and boyfriends were all against [my modelling]. They
said, "How can you stand there with your legs wide apart?" I didn't
look at it like that. It was very exciting for me to look pretty
- that is a natural thing for a young girl. But I still didn't do
a lot of things then.
Advertising
wasn't too good at the time, so I stuck to high-market products.
Unfortunately that meant I wasn't getting any money. I went through
a lot of insecurity. I had graduated, I wanted to find a nice guy
and settle down. In your twenties you are very idealistic and impressionable.
Every female model is hit on as she is out there. She is thought
of as easy, and dizzy. That's simply not true. So I was also very
defensive.
That was a much harder
time. Now, modelling is a breeze.
Q:
After divorce, were you more free to do as you wanted?
A: I was a magna-cum laude graduate so I wanted to
use my mind as well. At that point Indus Valley had just started.
So I went back and started to do some work with David Alyesworth
and Shahid Sajjad. The good thing was that the industry was just
developing at that time. Designers, photographers and choreographers
were coming back from abroad. There were a lot of firsts for me.
I organised the first show at Hindu Gymkhana, the first at a train
station. Architects would design my sets. Unilever was really pushing
me at the time to do a show. So I started Lux Style ki Duniya. Then
I got serious. I gained more confidence, I needed an office and
staff so I went about setting it up.
And then, at this point,
I fell in love. So I closed shop and moved to Canada. I moved back
to Pakistan in 2002.
Q: If you didn't have to rebuild your life completely
and become the sole breadwinner, would you have worked as hard to
make something of yourself?
A: It was tough doing it all on my own, but it was
also easier as there was no man telling me what to do. I had no
plans to have this life. The ideal life would have been college,
marriage, becoming an art professor and coming home and painting
with the kids at home. But destiny played a big role in the direction
that my life took. My father died. I had only 2000 dollars to my
name in savings after my last marriage failed. So I was forced to
work and support my kids. I started working for The News full time
and produced a programme for GEO. The Jang group gave me a car and
a good job. The idea was that my mother would look after my kids.
However, at that point, my brother fell sick so she took off for
America where he was. I would get up at a quarter to six, take my
four-year-old son to Grammar School, sit at Dunkin Donuts for an
hour before taking my three-year-old daughter to school. From there
I would go to work, then pick the kids up at lunch, take them home,
feed them, put them to sleep and go back to work. My mother's home
was in Gulshan-e-Iqbal, so I covered long distances, and it was
exhausting. Then my brother died.
He was a very strong
person. As he was dying, he told me he wasn't afraid. My sister's
husband was also very sick at the time and my mother's brother committed
suicide at this point. So my mother lost a husband, son and brother
in quick succession. I saw my mother and my brother's strength and
I realised I had to go on. You think you're never going to get over
it, but you do. I had no choice but to work for my children.
Q: You have stated in the past: "In this public field,
we either go for the wrong type of men, or the wrong type of men
go for us." How do you differentiate between the two?
A:
When you're rich, good-looking and famous, a lot of men will go
for you because you are the trophy wife. You are loved for your
wealth, looks, popularity, but not yourself. I was approached by
a lot of men like that. The right guys stayed away as they were
intimidated. I intimidate a lot of men because I am strong and independent.
Q: Women are staying single longer today, and there has
been a rise in single motherhood. But is this a change for the better?
A: Let's face it, women have been brought up to believe
that it's OK to be controlled by men. It's not. It's not worth living
a life full of hypocrisy and unhappiness. Your husband is fooling
around with some other woman but where will you go, and what is
going to happen to your kids? Those fears still hold women back.
But things are changing. When I came back, I noticed there were
so many single mothers. Yes, there are a lot more divorces now.
When I was in my twenties, I was very insecure as my in-laws hated
the fact that I was modelling, so, I gave it up. But when you stand
up and hold your head high and you are confident, everybody else
falls into place. I don't give a damn what anyone else thinks today.
And when you stop caring, they leave you alone or they start respecting
you. I think it's because they realise they can't control you.
Q: Do you think you are more empowered than the average
Pakistani woman?
A: When I turned 40, I had let myself go. I had put
on 20 pounds and my looks were going. I decided to change things.
I had finally secured myself financially, I had bought my own house,
I had a car. So I started to look after myself. I started going
out more and finding myself again.
Q: What about marriage?
A: That's not really part of the plan! I've pretty
much closed the door to that. A year-and-a-half ago I thought about
it, but I said, no, my kids are growing up. I have also seen my
mother go through changes, she is single too. She has become more
social, has her set of friends, goes out. I asked her how she feels
and she said, "it's great, I'm free!" So she is also planning
a life for herself. But she worries about me and what will happen
after the kids go off to college. So maybe I should think about
it, but it's not like a career goal because if it becomes that,
I'll fall into a trap. Marriage is a lot of work. But being single
isn't a fear for me, even though sometimes I hate being single.
It is frustrating and I hate doing the taxes, getting a water tanker,
fighting about electricity bills. Maybe if I was married I wouldn't
be working so much as I'd have my husband's needs to look after
as well. But that depends on the man you find.
I am not a bitter, negative
person who thinks things are over for me. If I find someone who
I am happy with, who I could live with and who could live with me,
who I believed is good to me and for me, and would be good to my
children
I would love to have a companion. But there is no
pressure anymore. I've already had my kids. I have a life, I go
out a lot and enjoy myself and travel. So I'm OK.
Q: What has been your biggest accomplishment - the one
you're proudest of?
A: My kids are my greatest joy. I have a brother and
a sister but my mother chose to live with me. Being able to be happy
is an achievement, as is doing what you want to do. I'm in control
of my life and that is an achievement. Professionally I think it
was laying the model foundation, breaking the barriers. I have a
lot of girls come up to me and say they admire me and they want
to be like me.
Q: Do you like being a role model?
A: I don't know if I am the perfect role model. But
it is important to speak about my experiences. I think if you can
give someone strength you've done a good job.
Q: As a much divorced, successful businesswoman, do you
think society judges you?
A:I don't care if they do. I almost married between
my first and second marriage. The scenario was quite awful. On the
day of the marriage, as I was having my make-up done and a thousand
guests had arrived at the hotel, my husband-to-be decided not to
go ahead with it. My family had to stand there and tell everyone
to go home. It was humiliating. My friends were crying and my family
was so upset, wondering what the world would think. But my father
walked in and said, "Stop this. It's good it happened this
way. What is wrong with all of you." I saw him choke as he
was really upset, but he had so much strength and the wisdom to
see ahead.
I think my would-be
husband was under a lot of family pressure, but to this day I don't
know exactly what happened. Marrying a divorcee and ex-model was
probably a factor. Today, these things no longer have such shock
value. You have movies like The Runaway Bride! But in Pakistan,
it's always been such a big deal. Everyone came to my house to condole
- it was like someone had died. It was quite an experience, but
you go from strength to strength. You can't become bitter. I knew
I was a good person but I needed some counselling. I learned that
I had made stupid decisions and judgments in my life, I shouldn't
have allowed the pressure to get to me. But you can't believe that
all men are alike. At 35, I came to terms with everything. I came
into my own. I learned to love myself. I must have had some insecurity
within that made me choose the wrong men. The most important thing
is self-respect. If you have that, others will respect you.
I'm not interested in what my daughter's classmates' parents think
of me. It's more important what I think myself. That's what is going
to rub off on my child.
Q: Is the new empowered Pakistani woman, such as yourself,
better off?
A: My mother's ambition was to marry and have kids.
So she married my father, raised her kids, and got what she wanted.
I don't look down on her, because she was happy, and she has lived
a successful life. But for me personally, my life is great. Education
and self-reliance are the way to go. If my daughter wanted to marry,
I would advise her to study before doing so. But if she wants to
just live with her husband and be submissive and that makes her
happy, that's her prerogative.
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